Is the Solo Cam era is nearing the end..... [Archive]

BAArcher

11-12-2007, 10:01 AM

I ran a poll over on AT to see what the current trend of shooters choice on cams.
My real question was how many still shot a single cam bows but the current results show that shooters are not going with single cam bows! (It is approx 2 to 1 !! ).
My question is now,....What will happen to big fortune 500 companies that make only solo cam bows?

What a great time for Elite to bust into the market with some high quality equipment!!

Single cams vs Binary/Hybrid/Dual cams poll thread;

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=584806

Michael

11-12-2007, 10:14 AM

I think the single cam will be around as long as the other cams are around. What I mean is, some people shoot a single cam better than anything else, and Matthews only makes single cam bows. As long as Matthews is producing singles, we will always have the option. Matthews is not going anywhere, they do have a very loyal following, and probably sell more bows than anyone else. A poll would be inconclusive for the fact there are multitudes of manufacturers that do not offer singles, or maybe only one.

I believe the dual cam/hybrid/binary cams will continue to evolve and run their course and we will see a "new" dual cam in the next couple of years that will be the "latest and greatest gotta have it" cam. I believe Elite will be (or is now) developing new cam styles that will up the performance factor even more, but the other manufacturers will too. It is all about R&D and giving the public what they want... or convincing them what they want.

These are just my opinions, so remember how much it cost you while reading, and are based on my experience as an archer, and an Engineer that works in an evolving market.

Michael

BAArcher

11-12-2007, 10:18 AM

I can see Mathews being like K Mart in the near future:eek:..............

Jeff_Tx.

11-12-2007, 12:28 PM

Didn't Elite just come out with a single cam called the Aigil? Mathews...K-mart? Trends come and go but I don't see reason why the single cam would become extinct.

BAArcher

11-12-2007, 12:37 PM

Michael

11-12-2007, 07:46 PM

Elite's line up is close to the trends of what shooters are wanting, 1 single cam and three Binary cam bows.
Looks like todays shooters are going away from single cam bows.........If 66% of the shooters are shooting Dual/Binary/Hybrid cam bows, what would you do as a company that offers only a single cam?

As long as sales are solid, I would keep producing the solo cam. I don't think Matthews has much to worry about at this point in time. I do agree that Elite is smart to offer more than one cam choice. I would like to see a hybrid, and yes I know I am odd, but would like to see a dual cam with split yokes on each end too.

Michael

BAArcher

11-12-2007, 07:59 PM

As long as sales are solid, I would keep producing the solo cam. I don't think Matthews has much to worry about at this point in time. I do agree that Elite is smart to offer more than one cam choice. I would like to see a hybrid, and yes I know I am odd, but would like to see a dual cam with split yokes on each end too.

Michael

As a CEO of a large company, if you saw the trend of customers moving to a different product other than what you offered, what would you do?

Michael

11-12-2007, 08:14 PM

Fire my marketing department! J/K, I don't know for sure. I would first look at where the market is moving, then determine if it is a fad, or worth the investment of resources to develop a new product. I would not make a change based on one year of market change either. I think there are quite a few companies making a solo cam now, and that will push the development further due to competion. I am not convinced we have seen all that the solo is capable of... afterall, Elite just produced one.

Takeum

11-12-2007, 08:54 PM

I can see Mathews being like K Mart in the near future:eek:..............

Hey,, Did you know KMart just bought out Sears? lol THey are Big potatoes once again! lol

TEXAS 10PT

11-12-2007, 09:03 PM

I wonder what the Aigil would be like with a longer A to A? Single cams are still accurate bows.

TEXAS

shootstraight

11-12-2007, 09:31 PM

As a CEO of a large company, if you saw the trend of customers moving to a different product other than what you offered, what would you do?

We are sooo not privy to the sales numbers of Mathews. I'm sure they're watching the market and know it better than you and I. The thing they do up there for there staff shooters and pros they spend a silly amount of money on those things, that's a heck of a big party. Gave away a new truck and mules and dinners for hundreds of people. If they were so close to going under, as you're implying they wouldn't be doing stuff like that.

In a nutshell, there's as much chance as them going under than a short ata bow shooting better than a long ata. :p :D

BAArcher

11-12-2007, 09:46 PM

We are sooo not privy to the sales numbers of Mathews. I'm sure they're watching the market and know it better than you and I. The thing they do up there for there staff shooters and pros they spend a silly amount of money on those things, that's a heck of a big party. Gave away a new truck and mules and dinners for hundreds of people. If they were so close to going under, as you're implying they wouldn't be doing stuff like that.

In a nutshell, there's as much chance as them going under than a short ata bow shooting better than a long ata. :p :D

Not under, Mat is too smart! But a change in design......
Just remember....You saw it here first!

BAArcher

11-12-2007, 09:50 PM

I wonder what the Aigil would be like with a longer A to A? Single cams are still accurate bows.

TEXAS

If Kevin could tweak 310fps out of a Aigil built on a 36" XL riser with 8" of brace height, I would be interested.

BAArcher

11-12-2007, 09:52 PM

TEXAS 10PT

11-12-2007, 09:55 PM

If Kevin could tweak 310fps out of a Aigil built on a 36" XL riser with 8" of brace height, I would be interested.

You ain't kidding there my friend. I always like the LX which was like 35 7/8 A to A but one that is faster with Barnsdale limbs....Can you say WOW!!!!!

TEXAS

Michael

11-12-2007, 10:26 PM

1 single cam and 4 Binary cam models.........Close to the current market trend!

Exactly what I am talking about. If one in four bows sold are solo cam, that is huge. I am sure most companies would love to have that kind of market saturation. I also would not say that is the market trend though. That would mean 75% of the market is binary, which is not correct. You are forgetting about hybrid, wheel, and dual cam, which there are many hybrids, and still some of the others sold.

BAArcher

11-12-2007, 10:36 PM

Exactly what I am talking about. If one in four bows sold are solo cam, that is huge. I am sure most companies would love to have that kind of market saturation. I also would not say that is the market trend though. That would mean 75% of the market is binary, which is not correct. You are forgetting about hybrid, wheel, and dual cam, which there are many hybrids, and still some of the others sold.

Not just Binary but all three combined vs a single cam. There are also several "other" companies with Single cams in their line.

Check out these numbers...I know, I forgot to add Hybrid in the poll.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=584806

Michael

11-12-2007, 10:43 PM

I agree there are several other companies with a solo, but Matthews has the bigger presence in that market. What I am getting at is a 25% market share of the solo cam (not just Matthews) is probably as strong as it has ever been. I don't think you will see anything else from Matthews for a long long time. I have been wrong before, but as a business owner looking in from the outside, with limited knowledge, it looks pretty good to me.

If the solo was on the way out, I don't think Elite would be producing their first, and companies like Ross would be hurting already. Again, I do have limited knowledge of the archery industry when we are talking about sales, but if I were Matt McPherson, I would be a happy camper right now.

Maybee-R

11-12-2007, 10:55 PM

some of the poll numbers your getting are because most of the martin guys shoot dual cam bows. there is alot of binary type shooters on A.T. also. run that poll on the Mathews forum and I'm sure the numbers will turn around. I for one don't know if there is a trend of solo cams digressing or not But I think they lack alittle in the speed department. If Mathews came out with a 340-350 single cam 7inch brace. there would be alot of single cam shooters. There new Drenaline LD. shoots over 315 IBO. and its a 37 inch ATA.7" brace. pretty good for a long ATA.

BAArcher

11-13-2007, 06:26 AM

Y'all can buy me lunch in five years when there will be a chancing of the guard in the industry!

BAArcher

11-13-2007, 06:47 AM

some of the poll numbers your getting are because most of the martin guys shoot dual cam bows. there is alot of binary type shooters on A.T. also. run that poll on the Mathews forum and I'm sure the numbers will turn around.

Do you think that a poll on the Mathews forum would be a little biased? Over on AT, there is a good variety if shooters (not Martin dominated).
I would also bet that more Mathews forum members are AT members than AT members being Mathews forum members.

You guys that think I am saying that Mathews is going out of business are reading way too deep here! What I am saying is that they need to change to meet customer needs if trends continue. In trends, cam type options.....Single cams will still be here but the popularity of other designs are going to gain strength.

Maybee-R

11-13-2007, 07:36 AM

BAArcher. I may be reading to deep into what your saying about solo cams.
But on the other hand maybe your going alitte far buy saying the solo cams are coming to an end. to me that says Mathews is done for in the near future. (I adamantly don't agree with that statement) I know how your feeling because there not the talk right now. But the solo cam isn't done for by any means.

As for a poll on the mathews forum being biased ? yes. same as the martin owned sight Archery Talk. You have to admit there is more Bowtech and Martin owners on that sight than any others. probably 3 to 1. and then add Hoyt PSE and so on. Most of the Mathews guys I know hate that place. and will not even look at it.
I honestly think Mathews can ride the solo cam for a long time.

BAArcher

11-13-2007, 08:38 AM

BAArcher.
But on the other hand maybe your going alitte far buy saying the solo cams are coming to an end. to me that says Mathews is done for in the near future. (I adamantly don't agree with that statement) .

I honestly think Mathews can ride the solo cam for a long time.

I think its just business,...Adapt to the market or risk losing your base.

Ride a single product without change sounds like a slow down hill ride.

The most important facts here are that I almost have 50 posts and I shoot a single cam Aigil:cool:

Maybee-R

11-13-2007, 08:43 AM

I think its just business,...Adapt to the market or risk losing your base.

Ride a single product without change sounds like a slow down hill ride.

The most important facts here are that I almost have 50 posts and I shoot a single cam Aigil:cool:
I agree 100% :D
How long just might be the real Question. ;)

BAArcher

11-13-2007, 08:48 AM

I agree 100% :D
How long just might be the real Question. ;)

Don't be so quick to agree! The single cam just needs Kevin to do his VooDoo thing and produce that 36" XL Aigil with 8" of brace height and 310+fps! That would turn things around!!
Just kidding.............

shootstraight

11-13-2007, 08:57 AM

Don't be so quick to agree! The single cam just needs Kevin to do his VooDoo thing and produce that 36" XL Aigil with 8" of brace height and 310+fps! That would turn things around!!
Just kidding.............

I personally would be shocked, assuming Mathews doesn't come out with a longer ata faster bow this year, if Elite doesn't do exactly what we are saying next year. As far as Mathews declining in sales, that's all conjecture and assumption. I know I wouldn't want them to get away from their single cams, I like variety. Elite is filling a Market void. They are welcome with open arms into this market, as well as ALL the other manufacturers. Wouldn't it suck if there was only one or two companies to choose from, what would we argue about :p

BAArcher

11-13-2007, 09:00 AM

I personally would be shocked, assuming Mathews doesn't come out with a longer ata faster bow this year, if Elite doesn't do exactly what we are saying next year. As far as Mathews declining in sales, that's all conjecture and assumption. I know I wouldn't want them to get away from their single cams, I like variety. Elite is filling a Market void. They are welcome with open arms into this market, as well as ALL the other manufacturers. Wouldn't it suck if there was only one or two companies to choose from, what would we argue about :p

That is a good point, perhaps we should hope they stay in their Solocam corner and leave the Binary/Dual/Hybrid cam market to other hungry young companies!

shootstraight

11-13-2007, 09:04 AM

That is a good point, perhaps we should hope they stay in their Solocam corner and leave the Binary/Dual/Hybrid cam market to other hungry young companies!

I agree, but it wouldn't surprise me at all for them to come out with another line (similar to Mission) where they market their dual cam from. Mathews DPSC (dual processor single cam), you heard it first here.

Oh yeah, shouldn't you be in the woods. :eek:

BAArcher

11-13-2007, 09:07 AM

I agree, but it wouldn't surprise me at all for them to come out with another line (similar to Mission) where they market their dual cam from. Mathews DPSC (dual processor single cam), you heard it first here.

Oh yeah, shouldn't you be in the woods. :eek:

My wife scheduled me a 10 am dental apt!:mad:, I'll be in the woods by 12 finding a new tree for the evening show!

Maybee-R

11-13-2007, 09:08 AM

shootstraight

11-13-2007, 09:13 AM

My wife scheduled me a 10 am dental apt!:mad:, I'll be in the woods by 12 finding a new tree for the evening show!

Yeah me too, but I'm working on broadheads. Oh congrats on growing a pair, (spikes, that is) :rolleyes:

Michael

11-13-2007, 10:51 AM

I would be very surprised if the solo cam is hurting for market share in 5 years, but we will see.

Rattler

11-13-2007, 11:21 AM

The Aigil is producing freaking outstanding #'s so I dont think it will go by the wayside any time soon with single cams.

a local proshop that deals mostly in Mathews says Mathews told him that they have a bow coming out that will do 415fps....I said I will believe it when I see it.....their bows dont hit their said IBO now!

Michael

11-13-2007, 11:28 AM

Will you need an EMT on standby to shoot it? I would think you would be some serious string slap with a bow that fast.

shootstraight

11-13-2007, 11:45 AM

Mathews told him that they have a bow coming out that will do 415fps....I said I will believe it when I see it.....their bows dont hit their said IBO now!

I've heard this one too, it's powered with a NOS unit. Problem is though the NOS package you have to carry on your back :rolleyes:

Clean Shot

11-25-2007, 10:57 AM

I think that the solo cam will still live as long as Elite is making them. I have an Aigile on my list and I am not even sure why?? I think it is just because I don't want to miss out on anything!

gjs4

11-25-2007, 08:34 PM

I loved my Synergy..but bought an Aigil though- guess I am behind the times

ozzyshane

11-26-2007, 06:03 AM

Hey Bruce instead of 36ATA with 8 @310 how about 38ATA with 7 @310 now u have a great one cam Elite.

For the time been i carnt wait untill my XL gets down under.

You are wright about the 3 to 1 on the cams down here you c a lot of hoyts Bowtech Elites all great 2 cam bows.
Thanks Shane

BAArcher

11-26-2007, 10:10 AM

Shane,
Good to see you here! I think the Xl will be the ticket, let us know when you get yours.
Right now, my Aigil is filling all of my needs in the speed and accrarcy department, its a blast to shoot!
Do you shoot any 3D over there? My wife had been bugging me about a "Down Under" vacation....If I could just time it with the big championship shoot you guys have!:cool:

Bruce

Hey Bruce instead of 36ATA with 8 @310 how about 38ATA with 7 @310 now u have a great one cam Elite.

For the time been i carnt wait untill my XL gets down under.

You are wright about the 3 to 1 on the cams down here you c a lot of hoyts Bowtech Elites all great 2 cam bows.
Thanks Shane

Dave Nowlin

11-26-2007, 01:08 PM

While I personally prefer a Binary Type cam, I don't believe the single cam will go away. My guess is Kevin doesn't either or he wouldn't have designed the Aigil. I still have a BowTech Justice with a single cam designed by Kevin. It was my favorite bow until the Binary Cam came along. It's still a great little bow though I hardly ever shoot it anymore.
Dave Nowlin

willthebad

11-26-2007, 05:51 PM

solocams arent goin anywhere...mathews will always have their fat grips and their "filled with mathews innavation" stuff...

it seems like today the solocam and binary cam's have their own political parties...i love readin all the b.s. on AT

BAArcher

11-26-2007, 05:53 PM

Playingthewind

11-26-2007, 09:57 PM

I think it will take some doing for Matt to start building a two cam bow after all the years of flooding the magazines with single cam straight nock travel b.s.I do think Matt is a heck of of bow designer and could build a fast two cam if he so desired but he would half to eat some crow.

BAArcher

11-27-2007, 12:19 AM

I can see it now, All of the Mathews diehards would call it a trend setting break through! Leading the way!!

Maybee-R

12-31-2010, 12:20 PM

I agree, but it wouldn't surprise me at all for them to come out with another line (similar to Mission) where they market their dual cam from. Mathews DPSC (dual processor single cam), you heard it first here.

Oh yeah, shouldn't you be in the woods. :eek:
You have anymore predictions? I need your crystal ball Your a wizard.

shootstraight

12-31-2010, 01:16 PM

Ah the good ole days, all six of us discussing the industry we love.

Daniel Boone

12-31-2010, 01:35 PM

I can see Mathews being like K Mart in the near future:eek:..............

You realize Mathews is still right there in the top of the most bows manufactuered. Matt got it going on. Mathews will always be big. I remember folks saying PSE wont stay at the top. Think you would change your mind if you knew how big Mathews CNC shop was and how many machines they run a day. Mathews aint going no where. Heck most would like to have the dealers they refuse each year. Dont see any of the top four dropping.
DB

mongopino915

12-31-2010, 01:58 PM

I am not sure if my statement holds water but this is based on what I know about my hunting friends that shoot a compound.

There are ten of us and I am the only one that visit these forums. Their knowledge about bows is limited and they can't even tell the similarities between between single cam and solo cam. The name Mathews is like the holy grille of compound bow and viewed as best of the best. These guys are not shy to spill $1400.00 to dress up a Z7.

Folks that represent Elite forum and Archery Talk forum are just the tip of the iceberg and Matt knows that the true market is the iceberg and his doing a great job at advertising and maintaining this huge and strong market. Unless the iceberg gets more educated about the differences between single cam and dual cams, Mathews will continue to be strong with SOLO-CAM. For now, Mathews is still Wall-Mart of single cam but a pricey one. Just my opinion.

Maybee-R

12-31-2010, 03:17 PM

This thread is over 2 years old guys. I just found it interesting Nick seen the Monsters coming before their time. LOL! BAArcher isnt on here much anymore. If at all.

shootstraight

12-31-2010, 03:27 PM

This thread is over 2 years old guys. I just found it interesting Nick seen the Monsters coming before their time. LOL! BAArcher isnt on here much anymore. If at all.

Yeah, guess Bruces Mathews roots went too deep.

CATrapper

12-31-2010, 03:56 PM

Actually it's over 3 years old.lol

Livetohunt

12-31-2010, 04:50 PM

This thread is over 2 years old guys. I just found it interesting Nick seen the Monsters coming before their time. LOL! BAArcher isnt on here much anymore. If at all.

I was wondering why the Aigil production was being discussed in present tense and noone was correcting them on it! lol

MoBuzzCut

12-31-2010, 07:37 PM

Rick are we taking trips back in time?

rembrandt

12-31-2010, 09:06 PM

I could care less what Mathews or any of the top bow companies do.....I just keep an eye on Elite and what Elite does with these great bows. They can come out with three cams for all I care........Just give me some good weather so I can shoot my PURE and I don't think about them at all. Great to have an Elite bow......