Rifle help! I know, I know it's an archery forum.

[dicksenn]

Okay I know it's an archery forum but you guys surely know a couple of things about guns so I had to ask. :spank:

I've been selling archery stuff to build up some money to by my brother in law a nice rifle. He's new to hunting and has never had a father figure so my dad and I really want to get him one because we know it will mean a lot to him.



Can anyone tell me about the Marlin XL7 rifle. It's got lots of good reviews but it's a cheap/starter/base type rifle and while I did look at it and the bolt slides nicely I have a hard time buying cheap things even as gifts. The rifle is $369 with a scope.

Any other good suggestions on a solid rifle, preferably with a scope but if not that's okay, around the $400-$450 mark? The store here has a Howa package with a better scope on it for $450 that I'm thinking about.

I may break down and fork over enough to make my wife really mad at me and get him a Savage 116 stainless steal with accutrigger around the $600 mark. I love the accutrigger and my Savage rifle and the Marlin XL7 has a similar trigger. At least with the Savage I will feel like we got him a nice lifetime gun.

Thoughts?

[ntypicl11]

My two sons 12 and 13, and my wife, all have the savage 111 combo's in 7mm. They are scary accurate for a cheap rifle, and about 400 bucks. My 13 year old and my wife shoot the managed recoil rounds. they kick like a 243, if that! The 111's have a super soft recoil pad that I think is probably mushier than a simm's.

I know nothing of the Marlin's, sorry! For me it's Weatherby or Savage. Howa does make the action's for Weatherby Vanguards, but the Vanguard is a little sweeter looking.

[P.Smash]

In my experience almost any deer rifle that comes with the scope as a package, the rifle will be fine but the scope is junk. Just being honest. Those package deals they sell pretty cheap so they put bottom of the barrel optics on the gun. The Marlin rifle will prolly serve him well......but a rifle is only as good as the optics. The best deal for the $$$ I've found in rifle scopes is the Nikon Buckmasters models. Pretty good scope for around $200. Those $50-$100 scopes are usually more trouble than they're worth. Just when you need them, they fail. Leopold Vari-X 1 is also a good budget minded scope, although slightly more money than the Nikon.

Maybe you get him a gun and let him buy his scope, or ask more family members to chip in. Just a thought. Good luck on your purchase and tell him good luck in the woods this year! :)

[Sean]

I dont know anything about the marlin rifles. I have always and will always be a Remington 700 fan. I know you are looking at spending a lot more money going this route but it will be a gun that last him a lifetime and then some.

[dicksenn]

Thanks guys. He's borrowed my Savage .243 111 the last two years so I know about the Savage packages, plus I have a 116 model 30-06 with the accutrigger (scary accurate). On my 111 base model I don't like the trigger pull so I was hoping the marlin or howa would be better trigger pull and scope for the money plus just as accurate. I did really like the stock on the Howa and the bolt slid very smoothly.

I just can't make up my mind and ideally I'd buy the Savage 116 with accutrigger package and let him upgrade scopes later on, at least the rifle is a great rifle. I've my sister may pitch some in to so we might go that route.

I think I'm really just torn because I don't like to buy cheap stuff even as gifts and was hoping someone would have experience with the Marlin and say it was an awesome out of the box rifle for $369. :)

[dicksenn]

I am in no way a super shooter with a rifle, in fact if it wasn't for the accutrigger on my savage I would suck. But for those wondering about the Savage accuracy here is a 3 shot group at 100 yards. Savage model 116 30-06 with the cheap package scope.

I've done this on several occasions, with cheap Remington CoreLockt ammo. Gun not in a vise but those black gun rest (one for front and one for back).

I'm sold of the savages with the accutrigger! Oh, and PSmash, I did upgrade to a Nikon Buckmaster 4-14x BDC reticle scope this year. It's awesome. :thumb:

[Natural Dad]

Yeap...have to agree with P Smash on this one!!! A Cheaper Rifle with Quality Optics is 20X's better than Cheap Optics with a Quality Rifle!! Most rifles today are held to certain high quality tolerances whereas Optics are not!!
Buy any "good" rifle with Quality Optics and you won't go wrong! Trigger jobs are not that expensive!! :)

[Siemens2]

Tikka rifle will run about $400-600 depending on stock and barrel configuration. Heck of a rifle.

[P.Smash]

Yeap...have to agree with P Smash on this one!!! A Cheaper Rifle with Quality Optics is 20X's better than Cheap Optics with a Quality Rifle!! Most rifles today are held to certain high quality tolerances whereas Optics are not!!
Buy any "good" rifle with Quality Optics and you won't go wrong! Trigger jobs are not that expensive!! :)


October 27, 2010.........a glorious day in history ladies and gentlemen.....


Nat Dad agreed with P.Smash!!!!


Jk man. I'm glad we're friends now.....even if it was'nt love week:D

[L-train]

Im not up on all "that" rifle stuff, but I do know that if it doesnt say RUGER...
ITS CRAP!!!!!

[P.Smash]

Im not up on all "that" rifle stuff, but I do know that if it doesnt say RUGER...
ITS CRAP!!!!!


Ruger makes a fine rifle.....cept for the "lawyer trigger".

[L-train]

Ruger makes a fine rifle.....cept for the "lawyer trigger".

trigger jobs is easier than a tulsa street walker. amen


honestly the trigger on my m77 wasnt great, sold it, my M1 is freakin sweet. I have heard nothing but good about accutriggers.

[HORSEMOVER]

I have found the Ruger hard to top for the money. The trigger could use some work but other than that it is a pretty solid platform. My son just won a .22 at a duck dinner the other day and I was thinking about trading it on on a nice rifle for him. I took a quick peek at a Ruger Ultralight(?) .243. It was a little shorter and lighter than the standard but still a nice gun comfortable enough for an adult. What caliber do you like for a 12 year old?

[P.Smash]

243 is really the most logical choice. I like the 223 but it's not as sure a killer if the shot aint on the money......something to worry about with a kid. Also, in the 243 dont use the heaviest bullet (105 gr.), use the 85 or 90 gr. It expands better causing massive wound channels. The 105 gr (at least in my experience) will often blow through a smaller deer without even opening....leaving a pencil sized entry and exit wound. Not much of a blood trail.
All I know about this is on Okie deer though, I'm sure they're smaller than PA deer.

[L-train]

A lot of states have .243 minimum so thats my choice, unless elk or moose are possible then a .308 cause the manage recoil are great when really young and hot loads aren't bad. Good for Kids to get a little kick here or there.

[HORSEMOVER]

He shot his buck last year with my old 30/30 and has shot my .270 and neither bothered him but I thought a lighter load would make sense and I have larger if he ever needs it for a trip. Additionally I guess a .243 would always make a nice yote gun down the road he he wants to step up to something larger. Hadn't really considered the .308 but good point train.

[P.Smash]

I like all the 30 cal rounds. Great bullet choices. I own several (300 mag, 308, 30-06)
That being said I have found the 7mm-08 to be one of the best deer cartridges yet. Lighter recoil than the 308 and flatter shooting. It would be a great gun for a medium skilled kid.....or anyone.

The 243 would definetly pull double duty though. Deer down to varmints.

[HORSEMOVER]

I like all the 30 cal rounds. Great bullet choices. I own several (300 mag, 308, 30-06)
That being said I have found the 7mm-08 to be one of the best deer cartridges yet. Lighter recoil than the 308 and flatter shooting. It would be a great gun for a medium skilled kid.....or anyone.

The 243 would definetly pull double duty though. Deer down to varmints.


I have a buddy who swears ny his 7mm-08. My son told me the other day I was thinking too much about it...which I am but I like to buy him guns that he will have forever. If I plan accordingly he should have an arsonel to cover everything and should never need to get rid of anything. Yah right till he needs beer money.:beer1:

[P.Smash]

I say 243 for now, then add a 30 caliber something later....like the classic 30-06.

[woodbooger]

I say 243 for now, then add a 30 caliber something later....like the classic 30-06.
plus 1 my then 9yr old shot his first deer with 1 then at 10 arrowed his first deer. Now it's all bow

[Natural Dad]

The 243 is a fun caliper but hardly the best deer caliber to choose. I'd opt for the 7mm08 before choosing the 243 for deer. Yes, I'm well aware the 243 has killed thousands of deer but that still doesn't make a a great deer cartridge. I'd look to up him to a 2506, 270 WM, 280, 308 or 3006 so he can grow with the gun.

Dads worry far more about recoil than their boys do most of the time!! Recoil can easily be controlled with lighter ammo and apparel. The 3006 offers a wide range of ammo from light stuff to heavy loads. My son choose the 3006 for his first rifle when I thought it was way too much gun for him. He loved the gun and never had a problem with recoil and he small for his age back then.

Ruger makes a fine line of guns but is far from being the only rifle maker out there that offers a good quality rifle. Browning, Marlin, Remington and Weatherby all make excellent rifles. Savage and Howa which use to be low end rifles now both offer excellent shooting guns.

When someone say they are not up on the rifle stuff, believe them and secure your advice from those that are. A kid DOES NOT need a light trigger when they are first learning to shoot. You can always get a trigger job on a rifle later when the kid has matured and become an "experienced" shooter!! Find him a rifle he likes and let him grow with it but try avoiding buying him a gun he will grow out of in a couple of years unless you just prefer to buy him a new gun every year or two.....nothing wrong with that either!! :)

[P.Smash]

The old 30-06 is one of my favorites. :thumb:

[L-train]

RUGER rules

Its a rifle, they all drive tacks easily, they all kill, pick one that fits.

My daughter will shoot a 6.5x55 swede.

[Lance3.1R]

I shoot savage 116 in 300 win awesome grouping gun .Ive only got 2 scope brands i use but there are lots of good scopes out there i use swift and vortex the glass is pretty decent with the swift but doesnt compare to the vortex when it starts getting late. I just got my 10yr old his first rifle also its the savage edge in 308 it shoots very well for a cheap gun but i dont believe there are many modifications u can make to this rifle. and youll need a long rifle scope as the bases on the edge are farther apart. HorseMover has the right idea thats a great cal. 7mm-08 excellent choice for deer.

[TEXAS 10PT]

243 is really the most logical choice. I like the 223 but it's not as sure a killer if the shot aint on the money......something to worry about with a kid. Also, in the 243 dont use the heaviest bullet (105 gr.), use the 85 or 90 gr. It expands better causing massive wound channels. The 105 gr (at least in my experience) will often blow through a smaller deer without even opening....leaving a pencil sized entry and exit wound. Not much of a blood trail.
All I know about this is on Okie deer though, I'm sure they're smaller than PA deer.

My son shoots a Winchester 670 in .243 We use Ballistic Silver Tips in 95gr. Those bullets have done the trick for him everytime. Great knockdown power.

TEXAS

[dicksenn]

How does the recoil of a .270 compare to that of a 30-06? I looked at the ballistics of a 130 grain .270 and a 150 grain 30-06 and they were practically the same.


Also, I'm not familiar with the 7mm-08 you guys mentioned. How readily available is the ammo? The think I like about the .270 and 30-06 is ammo is easy to find.

[L-train]

Recoil is about the same, maybe more on the 270. The 270 is a necked down 30.06 case.
Im a 270 fan myself.
But like the 308 all around for the reason of easy ammo to find, I like the accelerator 308 jacketed 55 grn for varmints, managed recoil loads, to big slugs.

Good info from a lot of smart guys, Good thread.

[dicksenn]

Recoil is about the same, maybe more on the 270. The 270 is a necked down 30.06 case.
Im a 270 fan myself.
But like the 308 all around for the reason of easy ammo to find, I like the accelerator 308 jacketed 55 grn for varmints, managed recoil loads, to big slugs.

Good info from a lot of smart guys, Good thread.

Really, see I'm not a gun guru or anything so I would just assume a smaller bullet means less recoil. If that's the case I may go with 30-06.

[Natural Dad]

Really, see I'm not a gun guru or anything so I would just assume a smaller bullet means less recoil. If that's the case I may go with 30-06.
Not necessarily brother!! L is right about the 270 seeming to recoil a bit more than the 06 due to higher chamber pressures. It also has a better rep for accuracy at longer ranges. The 06 is just plain versatile with bullet grains from 55 to 220 which will encompass a lot of different small & big game.

They make "lighter recoil" loads for both. I like both calibers but if you are leaning in that direction...hard to beat the 3006.

[HoPaLONg]

I have shot a 30-06 since I was 7 years old, never did use a 20 gauge either... My dad would just laugh. It don't bruse until the next day!

[HORSEMOVER]

dicksenn sorry for muddying up your thread with my question...should have started my own. Lots of good info. here guys...Thanks!


dicksenn please let us know what you decide on.:luck:

[tomkat04]

If you are looking for a great scope for the money, you might consider the Redfield's. They are very nice and under $200. I have a Leupold Vari XII on my Remington 700bdl and in my opinion, the Redfield is every bit as nice.

[dicksenn]

Okay, so I couldn't find the gun I wanted at any local stores and I would have had to order it which puts us close to crunch time for the gun season.

I ended up going off a lot or reviews and what some guys said at the gun store about the Marlin XL7. The Howa was gosh darn heavy, and I thought the Tikka was to light and just out of the price range at $550 without a scope. I was trying to stick to American made but I couldn't find any Savage's with the accutrigger without a scope or cheaper than $500 without a scope. The savage packages at $400 have even cheaper scopes on them than when I first bought mine.

The XL7 comes in at $315 for the rifle, and I got it without the scope package and bought a $200 Nikon Buckmaster BDC reticle 3-9x matte black scope.

I got it in 30-06 after much debate back and forth between it and .270 or .308. I took it out to the range tonight to get it sighted in for him because we are going to surprise him with it on our annual hunting trip so it needs to be on when we hit the range at our hunting location.

My overall review of the XL7 is it's a great little gun. The recoil pad is much better than the pad on my Savage so it really helps tame the recoil of the 30-06. I shot my Savage 30-06 after the XL7 and man do I really want to upgrade to a nice recoil pad. The trigger on the XL7 comes in at about 3.25lbs of pull and it goes off crisp. The bolt slides in and out very smoothly which will make follow up shots a breeze. It shoots great even with cheap Federal Powershock ammo at 150 grains.

Here are my last two shots finally getting it dialed in at 110 yards. I would have liked a 3 shot group but I didn't bring enough ammo. Time to give it a good cleaning and I'll take it to the range one more time for a final run before we gift it to him.

That coin is 1" in diameter.

[P.Smash]

Good choice and nice shooting! The 30-06 is one of the most versatile rounds available. I bet he'll be happy, I know I would be :)