Z28 + QAD LD = Blazer Contact. Any solutions?

[JohnMattson]

Hey All,

This has to have been discussed here before, but I can't find any solid instructions on exactly how to prevent contact with a Z28/QAD-LD/2" Blazers. And in case it matters... 28.5"DL, 60#, Victory VForce HV 400.

I have the center-shot set in-line with center of riser. The QAD is fitted with the TL1 launcher. The rest is positioned such that the arrow is slightly nock-high. I have the timing set to cause the launcher to rise in the last 1/2" or so of draw. The result is a more than slight contact on both prongs.

As it is, the launcher hits the riser shelf and can only go down to about a 10 degree upward angle. I suppose I could try raising the string loop to allow raising the rest accordingly, but the loop is where it was tied by the guru, so I hate to mess with it.

It shoots fine with the contact, but I hate seeing marks on the fletchings. I like the QAD and hope I can get it set properly to allow contact-free operation. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
John

[brokenbone264]

I changed my rest. that was the only thing that worked for me. I changed to the tallest launcher and still had problems.

Good luck.

[jjbuilder]

Have you tried rotating the cock vane to 1 o'clock? I don't use the QAD but that is what I had to do with blazers.

[TLB2]

The TL1 launcher is not good with blazers, I use the short one.

[Rgarbarino]

If you have on 09 Z-28 there is a possibility that you have one of the risers that had the rest mounting holes (berger holes) drilled a little low. If that's the case then all you need to do is raise your rest and move your nock point. It doesn't matter if a "guru" tied it in, it may be in the wrong place. Most will tell you to set your arrow at 90° to the string and have your arrow cross the berger holes right in the middle. If your bow is one with the low holes it will not set up according to those specs. My 09 is like this and I'm using the QAD HD too. You have to set the rest so when it's not cocked it lays flat to the riser, you should have no angle to it like you mention. This will put the arrow above the berger holes but it's ok since they are low any way. You want the launcher to come up in the last 1/2 of draw like you said and earlier and it won't drop fast enough. Also, you need to have the tie in point of the pull cord even with the bottom of the grip, any higher and it won't drop fast enough. You will have to move your nock point higher, it's easy to do so don't be afraid to untie it and move it up. You don't need to use the TL1 launcher the standard one works fine.

Here is a post I did previously with photos of this situation:

http://www.elitearchery.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16905

[GSLAM95]

I have installed several QAD HD Pro rest with no issues of fletching contact. I use my hooter shooter to time the bows I set up and the buss stops that are available through trophy taker are also great for quick fine tuning of the cord.
Use the standard launcher and time the rest to where it engages the launcher into the fire positon during the last 1-2 inches of draw and you will have no problems.
Rgarbarino gave good info about berger button location as well.

[JohnMattson]

Thanks for the replies, fellas. I raised the rest so that it drops flat on the riser shelf. I then raised the string loop (it basically threads up and down on the serving) until I acheived zero contact. At that elevation setting, the bow shoots nearly a perfect bullet hole, with a slight nock-high loop position.

I'm going to shoot it through a chrony to see what it gives. I think I'll try the shorter launcher. With the current settings, the arrow is a solid 1/8" above the berger holes, which I'm guessing will rob performance (?). I think my bow is the '08.5 model. Not sure if the holes are at the proper locations. I'll post pics of the results after swapping out launchers.

Thanks again for your assistance.

-John

[JohnMattson]

Well, here is the result with the short launcher:

I had to raise the string loop ridiculously high, and even then I still had some contact:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/SideView.jpg

I use lipstick on the launcher to indicate where the contact is occurring. Note that the contact is near the tips of the prongs. The cord on the rest is served in about half-way down the grip. I'm going to pick up some longer cord to reach even with the bottom of the grip on the down cable. Any thoughts on how much this will effect the drop speed?
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/RestClose.jpg

Here's the result through paper. I'm very surprised the tear isn't worse, considering how high the nock is positioned.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/Paper.jpg

Anyway, I'm going to try the longer cord on the rest, but if that doesn't work, I'm going to go back to the taller launcher. Otherwise I'm at a loss. Any comments about the pics above or how I might attack this issue further are welcomed.

Thanks!
John

[Takeum]

I use an FOB on my arrow when timing any QAD type rests... If you can get the FOB to clear, usually anything from there on out will clear.... The FOB is a great tool for timing DRopaways because if they hit the FOB, you'll know it because of the {loud slap} it makes,, BUt once it clears, It sounds flawless.. Great easy tool to use on all dropaways rests...

[Rgarbarino]

I will guarantee you that once you tie the pull cord even with the bottom of the grip, your contact problem will go away. By looking at your photo and how your rest does not have any more upward adjustment I'd say it's an 09 for sure.

[JohnMattson]

I will guarantee you that once you tie the pull cord even with the bottom of the grip, your contact problem will go away. By looking at your photo and how your rest does not have any more upward adjustment I'd say it's an 09 for sure.

Yeah, I'm thinking, as severely as I have to raise the nocking point on the string in order to even begin to see the contact diminish, it has to be a timing issue. I'm going to try to get to the shop to pick up some longer cord. I stopped at Gander tonight and they only had 7.5" lengths of string loop material. I guess I'll have to stop by the local proshop.

I'll post results here again, complete with pictures.

Many thanks,
John

[GSLAM95]

The down cord is way short in my opinion.
Set the cord to where it engages the rest in the last 2" of the draw cycle and you will have that part of it done. Next thing you may want to do is move that loop as the basic starting point is a plumbed string with a level arrow when nocked and move it up slightly if needed but not as much as what you have pictured.
Correct the timing of the rest 1st and then worry about the nock height and everything should fall into place.

[b_vanfossen]

I had the same issue with my QAD and TL1. coord set to bottom of grip. It ended up being the odd vane up was hitting the containment bar and bouncing down causing just a slight amount of contact with the forks.

I didn't notice this until I put lipstick on the top portion of the vanes and not the rest. I'm willing to lay money on this being your problem. the quick fix is to remove the bar.

I've since switched to vanes and have a set of arrows on order with blazers- I'm a little worried.

are you still having the same issue using the standard launcher?

[tdean]

its just not happening with the qad , get a linb driver , or the new ripcord is fast enough, the qad does not have enough spring in it for these faster bows

[b_vanfossen]

the qad does not have enough spring in it for these faster bows

this simply isn't true- at all.

Anyhow- the gap between the TL1 launcher and containment bar is less than .6 of an inch I believe...

[Rgarbarino]

I've got a QAD HD on both my GT500 and my Z-28. Both rests are using the shorter standard launcher and I have no contact problem with regular vanes, blazers or FOBs. I'll say it again, if you are getting contact then you do not have the rest set up correctly. You want the rest to come to full up in the last 1/2 inch of draw not the last 2 inches, that will make it drop too slow.

[JESSJR]

its just not happening with the qad , get a linb driver , or the new ripcord is fast enough, the qad does not have enough spring in it for these faster bows

the QAD was proven in a independent test to be the fastest drop-away on the market. i am sorry that i can't remeber which mag i read this in, but it was in the last 6 months. i am not blowing smoke here, it is the truth.

[JESSJR]

the proper way to set your QAD is once it is installed on your bow and the draw cord is spliced into your down buss cable with about 8" of extra cord, and it really does not matter wear on your buss cable as long as it is below the rest, serve the cable above and below the draw cord ( so that the draw cord cannot slide up and down the buss cable). Now draw your bow all the way to your anchor point. The draw cord will slide all the way thru the cable until you reach your anchor point. Cord is set. Now cut excess cord to about 1/16" excess. Fray tag end of cord and melt it. now you have achieved the perfect timing of the rest. Shoot with cock up.

[Rgarbarino]

it really does not matter wear on your buss cable as long as it is below the rest

It sure does make a difference! If you don't have it tied in low enough it WILL NOT drop as fast as it could. I'm speaking from experience. I was having timing problems until I lowered the tie in point to the bottom of the grip as someone told me to do and contact went away. That was the only change made and it fixed the problem. Other have agreed that the bottom of the grip is the optimal tie in point. Do it as you wish, all I know is I don't have any problems with the QAD with the way I have it set up.

[JESSJR]

It sure does make a difference! If you don't have it tied in low enough it WILL NOT drop as fast as it could. I'm speaking from experience. I was having timing problems until I lowered the tie in point to the bottom of the grip as someone told me to do and contact went away. That was the only change made and it fixed the problem. Other have agreed that the bottom of the grip is the optimal tie in point. Do it as you wish, all I know is I don't have any problems with the QAD with the way I have it set up.

do you think the buss cable two inches further down moves faster than any other part of the cable. think about what you are saying. i'm telling you that it does not make any difference where as long as it is below the rest. and i'm am honestly not trying to sound like a smart arse. it is just physics.

[JESSJR]

I was having timing problems until I lowered the tie in point to the bottom of the grip as someone told me to do and contact went away. That was the only change made and it fixed the problem.

i would be willing to bet that when you changed the tie in point the draw cord length was changed to a more appropriate length to the draw cycle, not because of where it was.

[CATrapper]

do you think the buss cable two inches further down moves faster than any other part of the cable. think about what you are saying. i'm telling you that it does not make any difference where as long as it is below the rest. and i'm am honestly not trying to sound like a smart arse. it is just physics.

I disagree on this. I have found that the length of cord can effect timing 100%. Ripcord even has this info in their instructions and that rest works very much in the same way as the QAD.

[JESSJR]

sorry, but i don't agree.

[CATrapper]

No need to be sorry, disagreements happen everyday. In the end, we all have to find what works best for us and although it may not work for everyone else, if it works for you, than what else matters. It surely doesnt hurt to try such a simple move.

[JohnMattson]

do you think the buss cable two inches further down moves faster than any other part of the cable. think about what you are saying. i'm telling you that it does not make any difference where as long as it is below the rest. and i'm am honestly not trying to sound like a smart arse. it is just physics.

The reason it does make a difference is because of the velocity vector component of the down-cable with respect to the positioning of the rest. Without getting too technical, the further down you place the cord, the greater the component of velocity is applied to rotating the shaft on the rest. Trust me. It's all in the geometry! :)

[JESSJR]

you are not going to convince me that 1/2, 1, or 1 1/4 inch length difference in the draw cord is going to change vector velocity in any significantly measurable way.

[Rgarbarino]

you are not going to convince me that 1/2, 1, or 1 1/4 inch length difference in the draw cord is going to change vector velocity in any significantly measurable way.

Think whatever you want. I proved it for myself with my set up. Contact when the pullcord was tied in closer to the rest, clearance when it was lowered to the bottom of the grip. No need to argue about it but it worked for me and other guys as well. Also, it's not just the length of the pull cord but the angle of where it attached to the rest.

Call QAD and ask them yourself if it makes a difference, they will tell you yes it does.

[Rgarbarino]

I just emails QAD and will post their response to the question of the rest dropping faster if the pull cord is tied in lower on the cable.

[Rgarbarino]

Reply from QAD:

Hey Rich,
The rest will drop faster with the timing cord lower and it will release sooner after the bow is fired. The rest requires a certain amount of torque on the thumbwheel to activate. The higher the timing cord is attached to the buss cable, the more torque is required. Increased tension on the buss cable causes it to kink slightly and it has to straighten out before it moves up. I hope that helps, let me know if you have more questions.


Drew Arnesen
Manager of Sales and Technical Support
Quality Archery Designs


So there you go.......

[IA Monsterbuck]

Reply from QAD:

Hey Rich,
The rest will drop faster with the timing cord lower and it will release sooner after the bow is fired. The rest requires a certain amount of torque on the thumbwheel to activate. The higher the timing cord is attached to the buss cable, the more torque is required. Increased tension on the buss cable causes it to kink slightly and it has to straighten out before it moves up. I hope that helps, let me know if you have more questions.


Drew Arnesen
Manager of Sales and Technical Support
Quality Archery Designs


So there you go.......

Thanks for posting this. I had heard that the lower timing cord placement caused it to drop faster but always wondered myself why that was.

[b_vanfossen]

I know it matters also.

But I would love someone to prove it using geometry.

[AREliteGTHntr]

A friend of mine was having the same problem w/ same rest on his Monster. The QAD rest fall from vibrations when u shoot. This causes contact because ur arrow is leaving before the vibrations cause the rest to fall. Have seen alot of this lately on the new QAD's. In bow shop 2day and there were 4 other people in w/same problem. I shoot Ripcord because it falls as soon as arrow is releaseing from string. They all changed 2 Ripcord today. My buddy did 2. Monster shooting well over 320 fps. No problems now. Just a thought. Everyone has their preferences though. Good luck!

[JESSJR]

the problem people are having with QAD is that they are not setting their cord at the right length. and the best way to do this is to let the bow set the cord length for itself. it is so very easy.

p.s. if you happen to move your rest sometimes latter, your cord length needs to be reset.

[Rgarbarino]

Not necessarily. If you let the bow determine the cord length like you mentioned earlier it will still drop too slow if it's tied in too high. You can have your cord tied in high and you can have the cord tied in low and still use your technique to set the rest. But will the timing be the same...no, as I keep having to say over and over. Did you not read what the answer was directly from QAD. If you don't believe it then don't believe it but it DOES make a difference.

[Rgarbarino]

A friend of mine was having the same problem w/ same rest on his Monster. The QAD rest fall from vibrations when u shoot. This causes contact because ur arrow is leaving before the vibrations cause the rest to fall. Have seen alot of this lately on the new QAD's. In bow shop 2day and there were 4 other people in w/same problem. I shoot Ripcord because it falls as soon as arrow is releaseing from string. They all changed 2 Ripcord today. My buddy did 2. Monster shooting well over 320 fps. No problems now. Just a thought. Everyone has their preferences though. Good luck!

Vibrations will not cause the QAD to drop. If guys are having timing issues then it's a plain and simple fact that the rest is not set up correctly. Guys, this has been agreed to over and over again by lots of QAD users. If you don't agree then shoot another rest and stop arguing about how it doesn't make a difference.

[JESSJR]

my QAD works perfectly. infact the last 7 i have set up on my bows have all worked perfectly. and they are all attached only about 2 inches below vertical of my rest. none of them are at the same exact measurement, they are just somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 inches below vertical of the rest. and i let the bow determine the length of the cord and it works all the time, every time without failure. so i am telling you that there is no specific location that it has to be, just that it has to be located below the rest. So, unless by some outstanding coincidence and statistical probability that all the QADs that i have bought and installed were made so that they could be placed anywhere and still operate properly I do not concede this argument.

[b_vanfossen]

Vibrations will not cause the QAD to drop. If guys are having timing issues then it's a plain and simple fact that the rest is not set up correctly. Guys, this has been agreed to over and over again by lots of QAD users. If you don't agree then shoot another rest and stop arguing about how it doesn't make a difference.

you know what they say- you can lead a horse to water.

BTW- I know Crackers ( He once told me anyway- Mike) and Terminal Velocity do not believe that is needs to be level with the bottom of the grip. TV set mine to the middle of grip...

If I was setting it up though- I've always set it to the bottom of grip area.

[JESSJR]

to clear the air. it is my humble opinion that the most important part of setting up a QAD, is that the position that you decide to tie the cord into your down cable, the cord must be of the appropriate length, so that your rest pops up at the last inch or two of your draw cycle.

[b_vanfossen]

to clear the air. it is my humble opinion that the most important part of setting up a QAD, is that the position that you decide to tie the cord into your down cable, the cord must be of the appropriate length, so that your rest pops up at the last inch or two of your draw cycle.

rest is not designed to come up to full 90 degrees anymore than the last 1" of draw. Optimely it should come up in the last 1/2" of draw cycle...

why don't people just read the directions?

[JohnMattson]

I put a longer rest cord on, such that the tie-in point is even with the bottom of the grip as shown below:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/NewCable-SideView.jpg

As you can see, even with the longer cable, the nock had to be positioned 1/2" high in order to only almost eliminate the contact.

This photo below indicates contact near the ends of the prongs:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/NewCable-RestCloseUp.jpg

I switched back to the taller launcher (TL1) and was able to achieve contact free shots with a slightly nock-high position. I'd rather stick with the shorter launcher, but for some reason I can't get it to work with my setup. I even used my draw board to verify that the rest is rising in the final 1/2" of draw.

I guess I'll just stick with the tall launcher, unless someone has any more suggestions.

Thanks,
John

[IA Monsterbuck]

With the nock point that high I'm amazed your cock vane is not hitting the containment bar.

[CATrapper]

With the nock point that high I'm amazed your cock vane is not hitting the containment bar.

Im willing to bet that it is or atleast is contributing to the problem.

[Rgarbarino]

I put a longer rest cord on, such that the tie-in point is even with the bottom of the grip as shown below:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/NewCable-SideView.jpg

As you can see, even with the longer cable, the nock had to be positioned 1/2" high in order to only almost eliminate the contact.

This photo below indicates contact near the ends of the prongs:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/NewCable-RestCloseUp.jpg

I switched back to the taller launcher (TL1) and was able to achieve contact free shots with a slightly nock-high position. I'd rather stick with the shorter launcher, but for some reason I can't get it to work with my setup. I even used my draw board to verify that the rest is rising in the final 1/2" of draw.

I guess I'll just stick with the tall launcher, unless someone has any more suggestions.

Thanks,
John


I would be willing to bet your cams are not perfectly synced. You should be no more than 1/8 inch above 90° with your nock point at most. Something is not right because you should have plenty of clearance even with the shorter launcher. Can you post a better picture of your cable slide? It looks like your cables might be crossed wrong and the slide is backwards....Is it on like this? The down cable should be behind the up cable when viewed from the shelf side and the high point of the slide should be to the front of the bow. From your pic it looks wrong to me. Compare it to mine.

[JESSJR]

rest is not designed to come up to full 90 degrees anymore than the last 1" of draw. Optimely it should come up in the last 1/2" of draw cycle...

why don't people just read the directions?

HEY, SO SUE ME FOR A HALF AN INCH OR SO. i have never read the instructions. this is not rocket science. when you buy a box of nails and a hammer do you read the instructions first?

when you let the bow determine the length of the draw cord, it is set so that the rest pops up at the absolute end of the draw cycle. i have never actually measured it but know that it can not be set up any more efficient than that.

[JohnMattson]

I'm very surprised, too. I have lipstick on the crossbar, though, and inspected the cock vane very closely after each shot. There is no indication of contact on the cock vane, even with the drastic nock-high setup.


With the nock point that high I'm amazed your cock vane is not hitting the containment bar.

[JohnMattson]

I would be willing to bet your cams are not perfectly synced. You should be no more than 1/8 inch above 90° with your nock point at most. Something is not right because you should have plenty of clearance even with the shorter launcher. Can you post a better picture of your cable slide? It looks like your cables might be crossed wrong and the slide is backwards....Is it on like this? The down cable should be behind the up cable when viewed from the shelf side and the high point of the slide should be to the front of the bow. From your pic it looks wrong to me. Compare it to mine.

You know, I just went back to my original post in this thread, saved the pic to my computer, then zoomed in on the cable guard. It sure looks to me like it is indeed on backward. That pic is as the bow was when I got it back from the "guru". I recently got a teflon replacement slider from Elite (thanks, Mr. Klossner!) and installed it last week, but I installed it the same as it was from the "guru".

I'll have to check it when I get home. If it's backward, do you think correcting it could make a difference? In terms of the cam timing, I checked it last night on my draw board. The draw stops hit the limbs at exactly the same time, as indicated by sliding paper between the stop/limb while slowly cranking the winch. Unless there's more to proper timing than what I just described, I'd say the cams are properly synced.

I dry-fired this bow last September, and shipped to a "guru" as a precautionary measure. He replaced the string/cables and "tuned" the bow with the arrow (which he didn't send back :mad0215:) that I included in the shipment. Everything looked fine to me, without closely inspecting for contact. I killed 3 deer with it, so I can't complain too much. I just figured, for what I spent on the tuning, it should have come back without fletching interference. :(

Sorry for the wordy posting. This is getting frustrating. Thanks for all the helpful replies.

-John

[JohnMattson]

I would be willing to bet your cams are not perfectly synced. You should be no more than 1/8 inch above 90° with your nock point at most. Something is not right because you should have plenty of clearance even with the shorter launcher. Can you post a better picture of your cable slide? It looks like your cables might be crossed wrong and the slide is backwards....Is it on like this? The down cable should be behind the up cable when viewed from the shelf side and the high point of the slide should be to the front of the bow. From your pic it looks wrong to me. Compare it to mine.

Ok, I'm officially annoyed. I dug up a picture of me, my Z28 and a big doe I shot about one week after getting the Z28 back from the "guru" last fall.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/EliteDoe-Smaller.jpg

Here's a closeup of the slider, as installed by "guru":
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/SliderCloseup.jpg

Here's what Rgarbarino posted as the correct way:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/CorrectSlidePosition.jpg

Clearly these two bows are setup with cable sliders installed opposite to each other. Not to doubt you, Rgarbarino, but are you sure yours is correct?

[IA Monsterbuck]

Clearly these two bows are setup with cable sliders installed opposite to each other. Not to doubt you, Rgarbarino, but are you sure yours is correct?

His is correct, it appears your is backwards.

The way your slide is set up I would think you would have to have the string & cable rubbing together. Might explain that cable guard chatter you posted about previously.

[JohnMattson]

His is correct, it appears your is backwards.

The way your slide is set up I would think you would have to have the string & cable rubbing together. Might explain that cable guard chatter you posted about previously.

I don't think the cables touch. Is it possible that it doesn't matter how the slider is installed (due to symmetry of the bow)? I'm trying to give the "guru" at least some benefit of the doubt here. :(

[IA Monsterbuck]

Even Guru's make mistakes. I'll bet if you flip that cable slide you'll find your bow shoots a whole lot better.

I had a string replaced on my Mathews at a local shop a few years ago. The bow seemed really loud afterwards but the shop owner looked it over and said it looked good and put some cat whiskers on it the string and told me maybe I needed a different stabilizer.

I took the bow back to the shop a couple days later because it still just seemed too loud to me. A different tech looked it over again and he could not find any explanation either so I took it back home.

Finally after a couple more weeks I had just had it, the bow just wasn't the same bow I took in there before the string change. Thankfully a third tech helped me that day and figured out that the string and cable were crossed incorrectly through the roller guard. Flipped them around and the bow was nice and quiet again.

It was a simple mistake, albiet compounded by their failure to discover the mistake when I told them there was something not right, but I never really trusted them to do a good job again.

[IA Monsterbuck]

I don't think the cables touch. Is it possible that it doesn't matter how the slider is installed (due to symmetry of the bow)? I'm trying to give the "guru" at least some benefit of the doubt here. :(

It does matter. Flip it around and see how it shoots.

[JohnMattson]

It does matter. Flip it around and see how it shoots.

Will do! I'll post results back here. Thanks again for the help, everyone!

:)

[Rgarbarino]

With the slide backward it could be be pinching your cables at full draw and throwing off your cam timing. When you have your bow on the draw board and the stops are hitting the limbs evenly you also need to check and see that the cable is crossing the timing dots in the exact same place. All you said was the stops are hitting at the same time but no mention of the timing dots. We're getting closer to solving your problem, I knew there had to be something wrong!

[Rgarbarino]

One more thing, on your zoomed photo it looks like you may have one cable running on each side of the string stopper. They should both be running to the left side of the stopper. Check that too!

[b_vanfossen]

Here's a closeup of the slider, as installed by "guru":
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/SliderCloseup.jpg



wow- what "guru" did this? that would throw the geometry of the bow off

[JohnMattson]

Believe it or not, this "guru" was highly recommended by Elite. I was originally going to send it to the factory, but they said I'd get faster service from the "guru". It was fast, alright. :(

I have some fraying of the cables in one spot. I wonder if it's because they really are rubbing at some point during the draw cycle. I paid a pile of cash for the string/cables/"tuning". I should ask for a replacement set of cables.

Just goes to show... if you want it done right, ya gotta do it yourself. I'm learnin'! :)

[b_vanfossen]

Believe it or not, this "guru" was highly recommended by Elite. I was originally going to send it to the factory, but they said I'd get faster service from the "guru". It was fast, alright. :(

I have some fraying of the cables in one spot. I wonder if it's because they really are rubbing at some point during the draw cycle. I paid a pile of cash for the string/cables/"tuning". I should ask for a replacement set of cables.

Just goes to show... if you want it done right, ya gotta do it yourself. I'm learnin'! :)

it just goes to show you that nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes. It's an easy problem to correct, but I'm sure the timing/tune will be out. does the guy offer any type of warranty? maybe you can send it back.

[JohnMattson]

it just goes to show you that nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes. It's an easy problem to correct, but I'm sure the timing/tune will be out. does the guy offer any type of warranty? maybe you can send it back.

Honestly, I'm not going to pursue anything. I'll chalk it up as a loss, and move on. I really prefer to know how to do this stuff myself, anyway. I don't like the idea of having to ship the bow out for maintenance. I made myself a nice draw board and got a good digital scale and a bowmaster press. I'm equipped to do the work myself, and I enjoy it. As long as you fine folks are willing to walk me through the process, I think I can acheive the best possible result right from my own workbench. I'll be sure to document the process here, so others can benefit.

:buddies:

[b_vanfossen]

if you value Michael Waddells opinion:


Bowtaritst (http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/member.php?u=125761) wrote:


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1054649958#post1054649958

[Rgarbarino]

Fraying cables is most likely cause by the cables slide. They need to be modified and smoothed so they don't prematurely wear the cable. Sent you a PM.

[IA Monsterbuck]

Fraying cables is most likely cause by the cables slide. They need to be modified and smoothed so they don't prematurely wear the cable. Sent you a PM.

I don't think the slide needs to be modified, I think he just needs to get the cables routed through correctly.

JM, flip the slide around and see where you are, you might not be too far out of tune. See how it shoots, you might be surprised it might shoot lights out.

[Rgarbarino]

Not ALL slides are rough in the groove....but, everyone of them that I've seen has the casting mark. I've had about 10 different ones come through my hands and they all needed to be smoothed out. Take a close look in the grooves and you will most likely see the rough area right where the cable runs.

If your cables are showing wear with relatively few shots, it's from the slide.

[JohnMattson]

Ok, so after correcting the cable/slider positioning, I reinstalled the short launcher, reset the nock position to square up the arrow with the string, coated the prongs with lipstick, and... NO CONTACT! So, clearly the incorrect cable/slider installation was affecting the rest timing. Good catch, Rich!

I now have questions about cam timing. First, here are the specs:
AA = 32 5/8"
BH = 8 1/8" (center of front berger hole to back of string)
DL = 27 5/16" (center of front berger hole to back of string)
Factory DL = 28.5"

I put the bow on my draw board and cranked it back to measure draw length. I noted peak weight of 61# (Pelouze scale) reached at 6.5". The minimum weight at full draw was 17# (approximately 72% letoff). At full draw, the top draw-stop contacts the limb, and the bottom draw stop is approximately 1/16" from the limb.

Here's a picture of the bow on the board:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/Bow1.jpg

Top Cam:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/UpperCam1.jpg

Bottom Cam:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/LowerCam1.jpg

Note that the bottom cam is well past the 3rd dot. The top cam is nearly past the 3rd dot (partially covering it). I have the draw weight set purposely near 60# (60-70 limbs).

So how does it look? What would be the logical steps to imrpove the current settings? Am I leaving out any useful information?

Thanks!
-John

[Rgarbarino]

You have timing issues. First your cams are out of sync, one cable is crossing the first dot and the other is still short of hitting the first dot. You need to have the bottom cam rotate a little more. Press the bow and take off the cable from the TOP cam that I have circled. I would twist it 3 full twists and put it back on. Get it back on the draw board and check timing. Once you get the cams synced take each cable and give them 2 more twists. Should be good after that.

[JohnMattson]

Thanks, Rich! I'll give it a try later tonight.

:buddies:

[What?]

its just not happening with the qad , get a linb driver , or the new ripcord is fast enough, the qad does not have enough spring in it for these faster bows


I shot the QAD with my high country at 350 fps...............never had any problems? NO problems with my Z either.

[JohnMattson]

Top Cam After 2 Twists to Top Cam Cable:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/TopCam.jpg

Bottom Cam After 2 Twist to Top Cam Cable:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/BottomCam.jpg

I added two twists to the top cam cable, took a few shots to settle everything in, then drew back on the draw board. The cams appeared to be very close to in sync. The draw stops touched almost exactly the same.

[JohnMattson]

Top Cam after two more twists to top AND bottom cams:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/TopCam-1.jpg

Bottom Cam after two more twists to top AND bottom cams:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/JohnnyGroove/BottomCam-1.jpg

I added two more twists to both the top and bottom cams and then took a few more shots to settle everything in again. I noticed that the valley seemed shallower and the letoff a bit less. I then put the bow on the drawboard again to check the cams. I measured the following:

DL = 27 3/16" (center of front berger hole to back of string)
A-to-A = 32 9/16"
BH = 8 3/16" (center of front berger hole to back of string)

I figured adding equal twists to top and bottom would keep the cams in snyc, but that did not seem to be the case. The top cam is now a country mile past the 3rd dot, and the top draw stop is 1/16" away from the upper limb when the lower draw stop is contacting the lower limb.

Not sure where to go from here. I'll be able to tinker a bit more after work tomorrow.

:)